Good afternoon all,

 We were called in to do an energy audit on a log home.  Very nice house but with ice build up and back up in winter and moisture on the interior main beam during summer.  We could see with infrared and visual inspection that there wasn't enough insulation but, with it being a log ceiling, we weren't sure how do address this.  We shared with the home owners that it looked like the roof had to be reconfigured to allow us to put in closed cell.  So, basically a new roof.  Has anyone ever encountered this before and what was the solution?

thank you!

Views: 133

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Hmmm interesting that infrared can tell you exactly how much insulation... More like you have some thermal anomalies which show some issues which require more looking into. For typical issues like this you need to take existing roofing off & get down to T&G boards (assuming this style) / sheathing (if not other) & build it back properly carefully insulating the he11 out of it - recommend at least two layers offset & taped

Thank you, Sean.  Infrared did not tell exactly what we needed, only that our suspicions were correct.  We shot the house from the outside.  Anyway, we're still at taking off the roof, eh.

Yep especially if you got water issues as the insulation that was there is now essentially shot / water trapped & there maybe more issues you can't readily see (though infrared can help in that regard)

This is like those BPI "Stump the Chump" problems where there is not enough information to answer the problem, so the person with the best guess wins.
It is most helpful if posters noted the pertinent information. In this case, that would be things like, what kind of ceiling? (I am assuming cathedral?), what is the ceiling covering? (T&G? sheetrock?) what kind of roofing? (asphalt shingles?, shakes?, standing seam?) Is there a flat attic? Where is the house located (city/state)?

Almost all of the log homes that I have encountered around the Central Vermont area have standard 2x spruce rafters with fiberglass batts. One had a SIPS roof and another a "living roof" (sod and grass). Many of them have T&G ceilings which leak air.
As for infrared, I rarely look at a house from the exterior due to the many variables that could affect the IR. (I completed a Level I thermography class with Snell Infrared about 10 years ago, and I use IR a lot).
You need to know the structure of the roof in order to come up with a proper diagnosis and prescription.

"The more you look, the more you see", and "If you don't look, you don't see".

This is like those BPI "Stump the Chump" problems where there is not enough information to answer the problem, so the person with the best guess wins.

It is most helpful if posters noted the pertinent information. In this case, that would be things like, what kind of ceiling? (I am assuming cathedral?), what is the ceiling covering? (T&G? sheetrock?) what kind of roofing? (asphalt shingles?, shakes?, standing seam?) Is there a flat attic? Where is the house located (city/state)?

Almost all of the log homes that I have encountered around the Central Vermont area have standard 2x spruce rafters with fiberglass batts. One had a SIPS roof and another a "living roof" (sod and grass). Many of them have T&G ceilings which leak air. As for infrared, I rarely look at a house from the exterior due, especially roofs, due to the many variables that could affect the IR. (I completed a Level I thermography class with Snell Infrared about 10 years ago, and I use IR a lot). You need to know the structure of the roof in order to come up with a proper diagnosis and prescription.

"The more you look, the more you see", and "If you don't look, you don't see".

Thanks Brad.  You're correct on the missing info.  I do the customer service work and help do the actual audits but the boss does all the inspection work.  It is T&G and a cathedral ceiling.  I'm just trying to help the folks out and see if there are other options out there.  We're in western NY.

 I don't get how someone can sell a log home or a modular home in this area with the BS insulation they put in there.  At least tell the folks that it should be foam and FG batts and give them a price and let them decide.

Agree that its hard to help without more information. Pictures? IR images? Do IR images show air bypass or insulation voids? or both?

If its T&G with exposed beam rafters it would suggest the T&G is the roof sheathing as well as the finish ceiling and all existing insulation is outboard of that and is probably foam board. If that's the case, best to tackle from the outside and problems are likely due to foam board joints being leaky (perhaps broken seal from movement). If that's not possible, could talk owner into a new interior look and use the rafter cavity to do it right on the inside and then install new finished ceiling, T&G or other.

If its T&G continuous across the ceiling and no exposed beams there is probably dimensional 2x rafters behind it with crappy fiberglass/poly and its probably vented soffit to ridge (is it?) and leaky as all T&G is. In this case, could gut it or do it right from the T&G inward with air impermeable board insulation sealed to T&G, strapped and then install new finished ceiling.

I think either way you are looking at either a new ceiling or a new roof unless IR shows only air bypass and not voids and you want to just clear caulk a mile of T&G joints and hope for the best. I'd also double what was said earlier that you investigative if moisture issues are more severe than meets the eye before covering it all up with something new!

Best of luck!

I would look to stop air from penetrating the ceiling. I would guess hot air is able to rise through penetrations in the ceiling or the ceiling itself, washing batt insulation. If you are going to remove the roof and use closed cell foam it will fix the issue. closed cell pretty much fixes all problems. Another option is to use a clear coat polyurethane to seal the ceiling. Like finishing wood work.  Then caulk in all ceiling penetrations.

RSS

Latest Activity

Rob Madden posted a discussion

E&O Insurance

Any recommendations for a good E&O and general liability insurance carrier for energy…See More
2 hours ago
John Redmond added a discussion to the group Energy Auditing Equipment for Sale, Trade or to Purchase
Thumbnail

Flir I7 Infrared Camera (Barely Used)

I have been away from this site for a while, so my apologies if this is supposed to be posted…See More
4 hours ago
John Redmond joined allen p tanner's group
Thumbnail

Energy Auditing Equipment for Sale, Trade or to Purchase

Discuss the pros and cons of the equipment you are interested in prior to purchase. Post equipment…See More
4 hours ago
Hannah Wood liked Quinn Korzeniecki's discussion Application Period for 2018 Energy Auditor (EA) and Quality Control Inspector (QCI) Pilots Now Open
6 hours ago
Quinn Korzeniecki posted a discussion

Application Period for 2018 Energy Auditor (EA) and Quality Control Inspector (QCI) Pilots Now Open

We need you!Applications are now being accepted to participate in the 2018 Energy Auditor (EA) and…See More
6 hours ago
Quinn Korzeniecki added a discussion to the group Building Performance Institute (BPI)
Thumbnail

Application Period for 2018 Energy Auditor (EA) and Quality Control Inspector (QCI) Pilots Now Open

We need you!Applications are now being accepted to participate in the 2018 Energy Auditor (EA) and…See More
6 hours ago
David Butler replied to Chris Bellanca's discussion Overheating garage
"Easy... insulate the attic ceiling. I'm not sure how much good it would do to air seal a…"
6 hours ago
Chris Bellanca posted a discussion

Overheating garage

Hi all, I'm looking for potential solutions to a problem at a client's house.  The south facing 2…See More
8 hours ago
Landon added a discussion to the group Energy Auditing Equipment for Sale, Trade or to Purchase
Thumbnail

Brand new retrotec blower door system $3000

Hi, I’ve got a brand new blower door system from retrotec that I got 2 months ago, and never got…See More
8 hours ago
John Redmond posted discussions
9 hours ago
David Holtzclaw replied to David Holtzclaw's discussion GSHP for domestic hot water
"Thanks John & Bill. Bill your experience is one reason why I wanted a larger heat pump with…"
11 hours ago
John White posted photos
21 hours ago
Diane Chojnowski posted events
yesterday
Rob commented on Bob Krell's group Healthy Indoors (IAQ)
"Hello, Has anyone tried custom filtering of window AC units? Specifically concerned with…"
yesterday
Michael Dunseith's 2 photos were featured
yesterday
Franco Oyuela commented on Perry Ning's blog post Warnings About Portable Air Conditioners
"Here are the top five benefits of owning a portable air conditioner: 1. Low Price – All…"
yesterday
Daniel Baur-McGuire commented on Kurt Shafer's status
"Whole house fans are a scam if you use air conditioning. Seriously "
Tuesday
Daniel Baur-McGuire commented on Michael Dunseith's photo
Thumbnail

NYC DEPT OF BUILDINGS TR8 ENVELOPE TESTING

"Looks fun. How did you connect all the fans together or did you adjust the flows manually? The…"
Tuesday
Daniel Baur-McGuire replied to Bob Reuther's discussion log home roof insulation
"I would look to stop air from penetrating the ceiling. I would guess hot air is able to rise…"
Tuesday
Jay Lillien posted a blog post

How Changing Temps Affect Your Home’s Windows

In Colorado, there’s a time-honored saying:“If you don’t like the weather, just wait a few minutes……See More
Tuesday

Photos

  • Add Photos
  • View All

© 2018   Created by Home Performance Coalition (HPC)   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service