Got Data? How much leaking electricity is there in HVAC systems?

I poked around when shopping for fuel-firedboilers and couldn't find anything official.  Ran across estimates ranging from a few watts to 30 watts.  Anyone have data or pointers to data?  A lot of effort has been spent on understanding "leaking electricity" from appliances, but what about HVAC? Seems like a sleeper to me.

Views: 254

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

This is what I have from some of our Baseload auditing:
Compressor Crankcase Heater in AC: 40 W
Zone Dampers on Air Handler: 30 W
Thermostat transformer: 4W
And... of course the 't-stat fan setting set to "on" always' which can be:
Airhandler fans on 24/7 (@400-600W)
500W x 24 hours x 365 days x .001kW/W = 4,380 kWh/yr @$.16 = $701 per year
Tamasin:

You are really making every opportunity to hammer home that "fan on" issue :-).

Regarding the math, I usually skip a term by going straight to 8760 hr/yr...sounds much more impressive :-). Anything multiplied by that number is a bunch :-)

And $0.16/kWh !! I'm crying the blues at $0.14 in NV!

Can not be said too often!
Can't tell you anything about boilers, but I could look up measured data for my own ECM furnace if that helps. If memory serves it was on the order of 10 watts total. I believe Scott Pigg of the Energy Center of Wisconsin has data for furnaces, but probably not boilers - he might have published the furnace standby in his Home Energy Magazine article of Nov/Dec 2003.

You might try posting this question on "The Wall" at HeatingHelp.com. This is Dan Holohan's web site, and some experienced hydronic contractors often give prompt answers to questions.

Alan Meier sent me to the Australian Standby Power study linked here: http://standby.lbl.gov/docs.html several years ago, but I don't recall if boilers were measured. Great study because it measured a lot of hard-wired sleepers, as you called them.

If you find good data please publish it - inquiring geeks want to know!

Upstate NY is coming in at $.17/kWh

Steve Waclo said:

Tamasin:

You are really making every opportunity to hammer home that "fan on" issue :-).

Regarding the math, I usually skip a term by going straight to 8760 hr/yr...sounds much more impressive :-). Anything multiplied by that number is a bunch :-)

And $0.16/kWh !! I'm crying the blues at $0.14 in NV!

Can not be said too often!

Mark:

 

"Upstate NY is coming in at $.17/kWh"

Does the meter reader wear a Lone Range mask on his rounds :-)??

Spent the coldest winter ever in Corning back in 99-00 and noticed how the state seemed to load up utility bills with surcharges. Corning Glass was booming at the time, but pity folks who had to pay the heating costs when things declined there later.Understand CG is now coming back.

The only electrical stand by losses I believe would be from the control transformer. If there is no call for heat.



Steve Waclo said:

Mark:

 

"Upstate NY is coming in at $.17/kWh"

Does the meter reader wear a Lone Range mask on his rounds :-)??

Spent the coldest winter ever in Corning back in 99-00 and noticed how the state seemed to load up utility bills with surcharges. Corning Glass was booming at the time, but pity folks who had to pay the heating costs when things declined there later.Understand CG is now coming back.

 

They wear a mask, but it ain't Lone Ranger or Robin Hood!

Actually just about HALF of the electric cost (I'm in Central Hudson territory) is fees and transmission charges. You 'only' pay about $.08-.09/kWh for the electricity, the rest is delivery.

Just got some measurements from one boiler.

 

Heating mode: 936W

Circ pump and air handler: 396

Circ pump only: 216W

Cooldown (internal fan): 120W

All "off": 3.6W

If it's leaking, while it certainly does affect efficiency, wouldn't this nevertheless already have been calculated?

If not, then a 14 seer pump is not a 14 seer.

If I may chime in, the newer hydronic boilers, (Viessmann Vitodens 200 being one I have personally installed, but others as well), often do cause an unexpected electrical consumption jump -at least the first time you install one. In our case, the internal blower fan and internal circulator (an ECM based Grundfos just the same), drew over 130 Watts over our previous baseline. The heating efficiency was admirable and worth it, but we paid no mind to the electrical consumption until we got the bill. I installed a Kill-A-Watt meter at the power supply unit for a season and it recorded over 600 kWH for a ten month period. This does not include the secondary circulator for the heating loop. We average about 18 cents per kWH here in Boston, BTW.

These are net boiler numbers. Our first month was double this but we found the culprit: When the boiler fired it created the tell-tale condensing boiler plume. The plume in turn activated the IR/Motion Detector on our outdoor flood lights... live and learn.

Tamasin illustrates the much larger parasitic losses of moving air. All that mass of low specific heat vs. water, it is not an efficient delivery method. The Btu per Watt ratio is rather low.

RSS

Forum Discussions

ENERGY STAR Version 3

Started by Allison A. Bailes III in General Forum. Last reply by Mandy Leazenby yesterday. 10 Replies

Blower door test for small apartment building

Started by Jerry Needham in General Forum. Last reply by John White on Friday. 9 Replies

Radiant Barrier Southeast

Started by Gary Wright in Best Practices. Last reply by yassin chahdi on Thursday. 6 Replies

Latest Activity

Jim Gunshinan's blog post was featured

Zero-Energy Homes Are Ready for Mainstream Markets

By Alisa Petersen and Michael GartmanZero-energy (ZE) homes—efficient homes that produce or procure…See More
12 hours ago
Jim Gunshinan posted a blog post

Zero-Energy Homes Are Ready for Mainstream Markets

By Alisa Petersen and Michael GartmanZero-energy (ZE) homes—efficient homes that produce or procure…See More
14 hours ago
Chris Davis's event was featured
Thumbnail

Webinar: The Latest Facebook + Google Changes and How They AFFECT You! at https://www.crowdcast.io/e/the-latest-facebook-

October 24, 2018 from 5pm to 6pm
As the BIG names in online experience - Facebook + Google - continually make headlines on how they…See More
18 hours ago
David Byrnes's video was featured

Static pressure measurement on a package heat pump

Measuring static pressure on a package unit
18 hours ago
Chris Davis posted an event
Thumbnail

Webinar: The Latest Facebook + Google Changes and How They AFFECT You! at https://www.crowdcast.io/e/the-latest-facebook-

October 24, 2018 from 5pm to 6pm
As the BIG names in online experience - Facebook + Google - continually make headlines on how they…See More
18 hours ago
Profile IconChris Davis, Pamela Denlinger, Vincent Amoroso and 1 more joined Home Energy Pros Forum
19 hours ago
Brett Little posted an event
Thumbnail

The Economics of Zero Energy Homes: Single Family Insights - Free CE Webinar at Webinar Online

October 24, 2018 from 12pm to 1:15pm
Zero-energy (ZE) and zero-energy ready (ZER) homes currently comprise less than 2% of single family…See More
yesterday
Mandy Leazenby replied to Allison A. Bailes III's discussion ENERGY STAR Version 3
"I've only ever worked on Energy Star with Habitat for Humanity.  But we have very few…"
yesterday
Colin Genge is now a member of Home Energy Pros Forum
yesterday
Brett Little posted a discussion

How to become a Certified GreenHome Professional - Free Webinar!

The Certified GreenHome Professional (CGHP) training is a way to learn about the basics of…See More
Sunday
Corbett Lunsford's video was featured

Testing Air Quality with Your Nose: Control Your HOMEChem

Charlie Weschler sits down with Grace and Corbett and gives fascinating examples of the complexity of indoor air chemistry. He is an air quality legend, a professor on three continents, and a super nice guy.
Friday
Profile Iconwallace van, Tony kroos and Sunmar Construction, Inc joined Home Energy Pros Forum
Friday

Photos

  • Add Photos
  • View All

© 2018   Created by Home Performance Coalition (HPC)   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service